NexusCon Dragonlance Debate Chat Transcript
Monday, July 24, 2006
This is a transcript of the NeuxsCon Dragonlance Debate, hosted by B'naa.
Bnaa The first subject we're going to talk about, is the current state of the Knights of Solamnia, are they really the champions they once were? Feel free to digress, and I'll ask questions. When the topic has enough ground we'll start the next.
DracosHeron so we cannot say anything until a question is posted?
Bnaa Sure you can
Bnaa I'm going to be asking questions to probe arguements
DracosHeron I say that the Knights are still a force to good but like previous eras this is just another incarnation of a anacient order.
DracosHeron force for good*
Markus_Essers maybe they are. but what are you expecting from knights?
Kranar_Drogin Well, I certainly wouldn't call them Knights of Takhisis/Neraka, yet I think they are 'gooder' than Legion of Steel
Trampas Does the knighthood live up to their ideals?
Markus_Essers not anymore
Bnaa Recently, we've seen the Knights of Solamnia turn their backs on their elven allies, leaving them without a home.
Markus_Essers look at the new hero, jaymes markham
Markus_Essers is he really the one who reforms the knighthood?
Kranar_Drogin Heck, we have no idea what the new Measure even says, in there it could say 'Betray elves' and we wouldn't know
Trampas Well....he unites Solamnia and brings the knights back together.
Kranar_Drogin He certainly is the one who is going to change it
Markus_Essers the attitude of knights are always the same
DracosHeron The Knights did not help the elves in the Age of Despair either
Trampas If that's what you mean by reform, then yes.
Trampas Ah, but should that attitude be the same?
Kranar_Drogin Attitudes of being 'holier than thou'? yeah, they still have that going for them (on a side note, I like Knights ;) )
Markus_Essers but a knight should act like a knight...
Trampas Are they a stagnant element within Dragonlance, fated to go back to darker days?
Bnaa The elves themselves have often not been much for helping the outside world, are they becoming more like the Silvanesti?
Archangel21 With a new oath and measure shouldn't they act different
Kranar_Drogin which darker days? Ergoth times?
Kranar_Drogin Istar era?
Markus_Essers who needs a new oath and meassure? ;)
Kranar_Drogin I don't think they are stagnant, I think that Niles has made it that way. I think if things wouldn't have gone so badly for them during the Chaos War, I would agree with that going to darker days.
DracosHeron I think that some feel the Knights of SOlamnia should act like Jedi
Trampas The oath has always been the same. The Measure revised already.
Bnaa That's a good point, the Measure has caused them a lot of trouble in ages past. Should they go more like the Legion of Steel, nothing written in stone?
Markus_Essers that's the difference
Archangel21 Without the measure wouldn't they fall apart
Markus_Essers KoS had alway things written in stone
Markus_Essers and that is the interesting roleplaying thing
Bnaa Well if they have a cause binding together in a brotherhood, like Magic is for the Orders of Sorcery.
Markus_Essers old traditions
DracosHeron What I fail to understand is why do people feel that the Knighthood is in trouble?
Trampas Besides, the Legacy has backfired on the Legion once, not being written down.
DracosHeron In the Rise of SOlamnia books the knights in Solamnia are corrupt
DracosHeron but Liam is keeping faith twith the knights in Sancrist
Markus_Essers so we have two knights?
Markus_Essers knighs of sancrist and KoS?
Bnaa The Knights have been corrupted or complacent several times, in the past.
Markus_Essers what i don't understand is the fact what is liam doing?
Trampas Markus, there aren't two knighthoods, no. Though the knighthood has become less centralized.
Bnaa Yes, I didn't either, until I read Knightly Orders
DracosHeron Liam is Grandmaster and so far, along with the White stone COuncil, is on Sancrist
Markus_Essers heck, he revivised the oath and the measure - nut lord gunthar
Archangel21 Lord Guthar started the revision
DracosHeron was any of this addressed in Knights of Ansalon?
Markus_Essers ok but liam finished it ;)
Bnaa Liam's current status is addressed
DracosHeron Bnaa: Thanks
Archangel21 according to Liam, Guthar finished it
Trampas KNIGHTLY ORDERS SPOILERS
Bnaa I don't want to spoil it
Trampas Want me to wait?
Bnaa Heron, ok with this?
Markus_Essers according to liam...:)
DracosHeron awaits spoiling, just please keep Jaymes classes silent if possible
Archangel21 go ahead and spoil it for me
Bnaa Welcome Back Heron
Bnaa Go ahead then Trampas :)
Trampas Liam has recently passed away.
Weldon_ BLeah. Desyncs still happen. bleah
DracosHeron I didnt know I left:)
Archangel21 Liam died?
Bnaa Welcome Back Weldon even :)
Markus_Essers he passed away?
DracosHeron huh wha
Trampas Per chapter 2 of Knightly Orders.
Trampas Which I can now talk about. :)
Archangel21 Natural causes?
DracosHeron Who is Jaymes referring to then?
Trampas Yes, old age.
Markus_Essers jaymes killed him! ;)
Weldon_ with maxium prejudice
DracosHeron or does he die after events in Crown and sword?
Markus_Essers ok liam's dead...
Trampas "Oops, didn't mean to take your walker away. How was I to know you'd fall on my sword?"
DracosHeron holy mishakal he didnt!
Ravenmantle That would be Markham's style.
Bnaa Knightly Orders says there's currently no Grandmaster, not enough ranking knights have been able gather to elect one.
Markus_Essers the flaming sword, of course...
Trampas Nah, Liam dies of old age.
DracosHeron but Niles clearly thinks differently
Markus_Essers hopefully jaymes will not be the new grandmaster
DracosHeron nah he will be Emperor
Trampas I wouldn't worry about that so much as I would King of Solamnia.
DracosHeron Jaymes Rex
Markus_Essers he makes the way claer for someone else
Markus_Essers but will never be king
Bnaa If Solamnia needs someone like Jaymes to be strong again, and survive, does it deserve to? It was founded a strong nation by honourable means afterall.
Trampas I still haven't finished Crown and Sword. Been too busy of late.
DracosHeron When did Liam die
Trampas Somewhere around 426 - 427 AC.
DracosHeron okay so about the same time as COrwn and Sword
DracosHeron Bnaa: I think SOlamnia does
Trampas Just before, I'd say.
DracosHeron Just because Jaymes is a right bastard does not make solamnia
Ravenmantle Of course it deserves to. You shouldn't define the people by the actions of its leaders.
DracosHeron raven said it best
Trampas You shouldn't, but it does happen.
Ravenmantle Aye, but you shouldn't ;)
Markus_Essers jaymes will set the new standards
Markus_Essers well, i like the freeman - i must admit
Trampas How did we define the people of Nazi Germany? By its leaders. And really, how many Germans were just fighting for their country?
Markus_Essers like the knights of the table round
Bnaa Should the Knighthood itself survive if he leads it? Should someone else challenge him?
DracosHeron wellw e can say the same with USA in present times.
Trampas Right. And we'll leave it at that so we don't get into politics. ;)
Markus_Essers there were many nazis
DracosHeron I think unless he is impaling women and children or burning kender, I say leave him in power
Archangel21 mark off burning kender
Archangel21 he can do that :D
DracosHeron Jaymes may be an arse but he is a great leader
Bnaa Well I don't see a problem burning Kender, the Draconians could use them ready cooked :)
DracosHeron For one he doe not appaer corrupt.
DracosHeron does not appear*
Archangel21 neither did Belydn
Markus_Essers hopefully dram will set him right
DracosHeron Beldyn was arrogant from get go
DracosHeron He never thought he was wrong
DracosHeron and Jaymes has showed he has doubts and fears
Archangel21 I'm sorry I believe power currupts and absolute power currupts absolutly
DracosHeron Heck even with an Aspect of Paladine in front of him he still thought he had done no wrong
Bnaa He's also, if I'm not mistaken committed some dispicable deeds, that in ages past, would have had him brought before a Knightly Council and killed with his own sword.
Markus_Essers so what about moptop?
DracosHeron He is the typical Niles Kender
Markus_Essers but maybe some kind of avatar
Archangel21 I think Solomnia should be ruled by a group of people, not one person
Markus_Essers there is nothing better then a good king
Weldon_ Well, interestingly, do you think Solamnia and dragonlance can handle a democratic government?
Markus_Essers but jaymes isn't the right candidate
DracosHeron Trampas: What are your honest feelings about the Knights Prsent?
Weldon_ With a house of reps, a senate, a judicial, and a executor?
DracosHeron I know your a big huma fan
Trampas Oh, wow, that's a dangerous question. lol
Trampas I have mixed feelings, truth be told.
Ravenmantle Weldon: Well, that's already in effect in certain parts of Solamnia, Palanthas being a good example.
Trampas Part of me believes the knights should be trying to live up to the ideals set down by Huma and Sturm. Maybe Jedi-like, yes, but they're the heroes, the knights in shining armor.
Ravenmantle And it has been for the better part of two millennia.
Weldon_ yeah, but like gunpowder do people want a fantasy life? where democracy happens?
Trampas The counter-argument is that tough times call for tough measures (no pun intended).
Trampas Sometimes, you do what you must, whether it is the right thing or not.
Archangel21 The problem with some fans is that they don't want the DL world to evolve
Trampas Markham is doing what must be done, not necessarily with what's right.
Markus_Essers but that's legion style
Markus_Essers not a solamnic one
Bnaa The point I would make to that, is that the founding of Solamnia, must itself have been a tough time.
DracosHeron Yes was Vinas really that honorable?
Trampas So I don't know. It's evolving.
Bnaa Well I'd say so
Trampas As for gunpowder...leave it to the gnomes. ;)
Kranar_Drogin I think Vinas was very honorable
Weldon_ Well, here's a moral question, does it matter if Jaymes is bad? like Vinas? or is it more important that he sees the light.
Weldon_ Vinas afterall, was a soldier of Ergoth until he changed his mind.
Markus_Essers he sees the light but stands in darkness
Weldon_ Why do we not allow Jayme that same length of rope to hang himself?
Bnaa Well, all I've heard of Jaymes, I kind of want to see him face traditional Solamnic Justice :)
Kranar_Drogin I don't think it matters that Jaymes is bad, cause he is doing what needs to be done, uniting Solamnia
Markus_Essers come on...he raped selinda...
Archangel21 The end justifies the means?
Trampas But where will he lead it?
DracosHeron More like a Mickey Finn than rape
Markus_Essers well i see it this way
DracosHeron buts icy ground
Ravenmantle Aye but that's exactly the question here...does the end justify the means?
Weldon_ well magically induced love
Markus_Essers who is mickey finn?
Bnaa Date rape is still a form of rape
Weldon_ heheh. i mentioned this on the forum thread. The ends always justify the means.
Markus_Essers "magically induced love"?:-@
DracosHeron Mickey Finn is a slang term for a drug-laced drink, given to someone without their knowledge in order to incapacitate them. Specifically, a Mickey Finn is a solution of chloral hydrate in alcohol. It is named for a mafia-tied bartender in a Chicago speak-easy in the 1920s
Ravenmantle Weldon: Nay, I say! ;-)
Weldon_ Bring back the balance (ends), hit the world with a meteor (means)
Kranar_Drogin I agree that he did rape her, but I am not looking at that, I am looking at what he has done for Solamnia. And who knows what goes on in book 3, Selinda could say, "all you had to do was ask" Can't judge until the final book
Markus_Essers ok thanks
DracosHeron well until she says its Rape
DracosHeron I am willing to leave it alone
DracosHeron thats the elephant in the room
Weldon_ But them, i've the draconian heart of ultimate cynicism. :D
Markus_Essers no. that's the problem. he didn't ask. he just took...
Bnaa Which leads me to the question, do those sorts of concepts really belong in Dragonlance, and if so, should a white robe and Knight of Solamnia really be the people to introduce it?
DracosHeron to be honest I hate that Noiles wrote that
DracosHeron Niles even
Markus_Essers for me some things are good to leave alone
Weldon_ Heheh. well, here's an interesting question? lawfully, is there a law about using drugs (or magic potions ) to get a woman to have sex with you? that's a recent social problem of our age. who's to say there's even a rule back in the middle ages or in fantasy law books.
Markus_Essers rape is one thing...
Kranar_Drogin I think what that it shows they are people too rather than something up on a pedistile, makes them more real life that make bad choices
DracosHeron I mean if Jaymes is a rapist how do you defend him and in the end a Knighthood that allows a rapists be its leader
Kranar_Drogin Weldon: I agree, do we know that that is a rape in their time?
Kranar_Drogin Ah, but will he be the leader of the Knighthood in the end?
Weldon_ ugggg. I recant that. the measure dislikes the use of magic in general. so a drug that did that should be forbidden.
Kranar_Drogin Or the leader of a nation
Bnaa I agree, I know it's in La Morte D'Arthur (think I spelt that right) but I still hate the idea of things like that being in Dragonlance
Kranar_Drogin If the Measure dislikes it, why Kingfishers?
Weldon_ Well, tradition mostly.
Kranar_Drogin maybe the new Measure likes magic
Ravenmantle Weldon: Whether or not there is a law about it in-world does not change the reader's view of what is going on. We, as readers, know that it's morally wrong.
Trampas The revised Measure allowed for the formation of the Solamnic Auxiliary, which the Kingfishers are part of.
Archangel21 DL has been able to use discrimination, Violence, etc.
Markus_Essers> i agree
Kranar_Drogin In my notes, I have nothing about the Measure prohibiting magic following Rose and the Skull
Archangel21 I think Rape should be in DL
Kranar_Drogin In medievel times Earth, it was rampant
Trampas As it was with Tanis.
Markus_Essers ok...only for the bad guys
Weldon_ heheh. well, i think Doug niles did a good thing by introducing this type of rape, and probably standing out to say, "this is wrong"
Markus_Essers not with the protagonist
Trampas Does the "hero" always have to be a hero?
Kranar_Drogin what if the protagonist though is the bad guy?
Archangel21 what if the bad guy is the protagonist:P
Archangel21 beat me kranar
Weldon_ It'll be an anachronism but a good one to introduce this rule that magic items would be rape.
Markus_Essers well i don't know...
Bnaa And the white robe who created (the head of the order I might add), what of her?
Markus_Essers i want to like the protagonist
DracosHeron Liam is well
Ravenmantle She's a freaky one
Trampas I think she's lovestruck. She may be a woman now, but she's relatively young.
Weldon_ Well, i'm still betting that she's the true princess of the prophexy. she just doesn't know it, yet
Markus_Essers once we tried to play an evil group...that was ne fun...and reading it isn't fun for me either
DracosHeron well it was magic and all things are allowed for the magic
Kranar_Drogin She is in total love and would do anything that Jaymes asks
Trampas Not really.
DracosHeron Not really for the magic?
Trampas The WoHS have limits. Each order places different limits.
Markus_Essers love justifies the means?
Kranar_Drogin well, except go against the TOwers I am sure and the Orders
Bnaa Well yes, but the White Robes themselves have rules, they must obey or be kicked out of the Order of the White robe, forced to join another
Ravenmantle I don't buy that Heron. Even wizards are guided by morals (hence the division of robes).
DracosHeron I agree
DracosHeron just tossing it out there? :)
Ravenmantle Aah, well toss away! :D
Markus_Essers she knew what she had done! and she knew what jaymes had in mind
Trampas Do you guys think that Coryn would do that for anyone else?
DracosHeron but would it be wrong for a red robe?
Bnaa So should she be tossed into the order of the Black Robes, striped of her title?
Kranar_Drogin I don't think so
Weldon_ hmmmm. so then do you think the White robes have rules that say, "hey, this love potion is bad. it can be used to rape someone?"
Bnaa Yes, Red Robes, are all about free will.
Trampas Even the White Robes are not pristine, B'naa. They can make mistakes.
Carteeg Par-Salian cursed a guy to see everything rot for the rest of his life. Nothing happened to him.
Trampas I was just going to bring him up.
Ravenmantle Weldon: I think that, should the circumstances surrounding this potion be known to the White Robes, they'd take action.
Weldon_ Carteeg, yeah but he was kinda powerful.
Trampas Ask what Coryn's motives are.
Trampas Why does she do this?
Bnaa Well it kind of did, he lived to see the consquences of his actions, when Raistlin came of power and became a renegade
Weldon_ power dictates the justice and punishment taken.
Carteeg She's suckered in by the guy.
Trampas She believes that this is a necessary step for the greater good.
Weldon_ So if he had the power, the other wizards can;t do anything. Remember Raistlin the possible renegade, but too powerful so they didn't hunt him down?
Carteeg Same as Beldyn.
Ravenmantle Again, the ends justifying the means :)
Trampas So she feels that she's working for good, even if she technically isn't.
Trampas There's a lot of that in this series. ;)
Ravenmantle This seems to be a prevalent theme in the Rise of SOlamnia trilogy.
DracosHeron the greater good?
DracosHeron to ahve the greater good succeed anything is allowed?
Trampas The reformation of Solamnia as a force for good in the world.
Carteeg The greatest evils that go on in DL seem to be done by the good-guys. :)
Trampas Coryn doesn't know how far Jaymes will take things.
Markus_Essers sure she did
Ravenmantle But would she stop him even if she did?
DracosHeron I do not think so
Markus_Essers mistakes or failure?
Weldon_ So. do any of you think we're like the wizard's conclave debating whether Coryn should be made a renegade? :-)
Trampas So we have this theme of ends justifying the means. Wrongs done in the name of right.
Bnaa Well she should definately be made to suffer for the actions she's taken, it can harm magic
Archangel21 exactly what happened in Istar
DracosHeron Weldon: Yes!
DracosHeron Harm good magic you mean
Trampas Nah. Making a mistake doesn't make one a renegade. Now maybe Solinari should have a talk with her...
Carteeg I don't think she's a renegade. She's being suckered in to doing horrible acts by someone she thinks is better for everyone simply because he makes her blood race.
Weldon_ Heheh. well, i play the black robe. Give me some love potions and I'll get coryn properly punished.
DracosHeron Gasp what if Solinari sancttioned it??
Bnaa The people could rise up against the Orders when they see that even white robes will create potions that will force someone to love them so they can be raped.
Trampas He may not have. He knows, though, that mortals have free will. He may be saddened by all of this.
DracosHeron I mean if events are to be beileved in AMber and Iron
Ravenmantle Nah, I don't think they will. Who'd want to lose the thatched roof of his new farm just because some White Witch brewed a love potion
DracosHeron He is well aware of her actions
Markus_Essers white robes should protect the commen folk not endanger them
DracosHeron White Robes Priorty: Good Magic, Good, Helpinf ppl
DracosHeron in that order
Ravenmantle Very true. And that may be exactly what she thinks she's doing.
Trampas That's what Coryn is trying to do. From a certain point of view.
Trampas A strong Solamnia will protect the common man.
Weldon_ at it has worked. we now have kingfishers.
Trampas A weak Solamnia opens the door to Neraka.
Carteeg Here is a question. What type of Solamnia do you think there would be under Jaymes? Would it really be a bastion of good and righteousness?
Bnaa How would the common people see it though, a women raped by the actions of the head of the white robes?
Weldon_ and in doing so, she's well on her way of reclaiming the tower on the Solamnic plains.
Archangel21 A bastion of what Jaymes sees as good and Righteousness
DracosHeron how would they know though?
Bnaa She's still able to talk I imagine?
Trampas These things have a tendency to leak out.
Carteeg Yeah. The people of Palanthas were never known for being the brightest on the ball.
Weldon_ I'm sure the palanthan newspaper will talk about the issue. :-)
Ravenmantle Carteeg: Well, most commoners will still be good-hearted, honest folk. The nobility will still care first and foremost about its riches. I don't think it will affect much-.
DracosHeron Joshua should do a column on the issue
Bnaa Carteeg : I kind of doubt they'll be the champions they have been when men of honour lead the Knighthood, it will be more like Silvanesti when the elves had the shield
Carteeg Eye in the Crowd: The Princess's Rape - Good or Bad for the Country?
Ravenmantle Well, that rape is still a few years down the road ;) The Herald takes place in 423 AC :)
Kranar_Drogin No one knows about it, but if it became know, yeah, that would be a good one.
Markus_Essers after killing her lover...;)
DracosHeron why do dpppl think that Jaymes dies
Bnaa Elves who disagreed with the general wouldn't be cast out, they'd simply go "missing" I think that Jaymes would probably employ the same sort of leadership.
Kranar_Drogin because they want him to die I think
Trampas He's a cowboy. He might ride off in the sunset.
Ravenmantle Welcome back Seph.
Markus_Essers yes i would like to see that
Bnaa Welcome Back Sephzero
DracosHeron He suffers the Shane curse?
Sephzero He could always fake his death in some grand manner of securing his legacy.
Markus_Essers by the way...what do you think about he cowboy-style?
Carteeg I think he's going to win Solamnia and the nation will suffer for it.
Sephzero A legend to bind the people of the land.
Ravenmantle Doug Clark mentioned that the other day, connecting Firefly to the whole Western trend as well.
DracosHeron I rrather like the cowboy style myself
DracosHeron Heck I love it
Kranar_Drogin So do I
DracosHeron Liam is Mixing Firefly and Dragonlance is a cool idea
Carteeg I don't mind the cowboy-style. In fact, his flipping the bird to Solamnic traditions actually has me giving him extra brownie points.
Markus_Essers i am not sure
Kranar_Drogin Like that duel, that was great
Ravenmantle The one with Lord Frankish?
Kranar_Drogin hehe, yeah
Markus_Essers it was written great
Markus_Essers but the end? hey he killed that guy
Kranar_Drogin I surren....gahhhh
Ravenmantle Aye, but the outcome was disgusting.
Sephzero Didn't expect much else.
Bnaa Since when were they allowed to duel in wartime anyway? I thought Chronicles said that was against the rules?
Carteeg It was a good scene. He didn't even care how the others saw it.
Kranar_Drogin That is what I expected, you must eliminate your enemies when you are at war, and he was an enemy, plotting against him
Markus_Essers but that's the right leader for solamnia?
DracosHeron why was the outcome disgusting?
Kranar_Drogin Why not, where does it say that an honorable person has to always lead Solamnia? Jaymes has his own honor and code, his own
DracosHeron For one the guy cheated
Sephzero Perhaps. Depends on how much different between war and peace.
DracosHeron and two they were out to kill Jaymes
DracosHeron and he suffered the consequences of his actions
Bnaa If it were that easy, Gunthar would have challenged Crownguard
DracosHeron Just because one has honor you dont always show honor to honorless dogs
DracosHeron read the code of chilvary
Trampas I hated that chapter. lol But if he was a cowboy, and not a knight, I might have a different opinion.
Markus_Essers jaymes reminds me of the punisher...sorry.
DracosHeron it the codes of chilvary
Kranar_Drogin I can see that Markus
DracosHeron killing infidels without mercy is not murder nor deserve honorabkle treatment
Trampas> I hadn't thought of that.
Kranar_Drogin Neither had I, but that is a good point Heron
DracosHeron By becoming corrupt and shrugging off the oath and measure
DracosHeron they no longer were honorable knights
DracosHeron and thus deserve no honor
Trampas How...Klingon. ;)
Sephzero Or a few other cultures.
Markus_Essers what about lorimar?
Markus_Essers i would like to know more of him
Markus_Essers but unfortunately he was not mentioned further...
DracosHeron Jaymes and Faros are the Anti-Hero version of Huma and Kaz
Markus_Essers why would a guy like jaymes be his bodyguard?
Bnaa Yes, in the real world perhaps. But the Knights of Solamnia have taken prisioners before, the Kit's Lt was taken prisioner, if that were true in Dragonlance, and the Knights of Solamnia then shouldn't they have not bothered wasting food on him and just done away with the guy when they had anything intelligence wise they could get?
Kranar_Drogin Jaymes changed following being the bodyguard I think
Markus_Essers> and skipped everything he believed in?
DracosHeron ah but this was a duel
DracosHeron not the field of battle
Trampas Is Solamnia the Camelot of Dragonlance? If so, then Lorimar might have been DL's King Arthur. What would have happened had Arthur been killed before his time?
Sephzero Else there is truly something more sinister stringing everything to a certain conclusion.
Ravenmantle Heron, I don't buy that (again ;) ). Of course Jaymes should have shown him mercy. It's no different from someone being murdered. Jaymes should have let the knighthood deal with him, setting up a trial and execution. Jaymes exhibited vigilante behavior which will be frowned upon in any civilized society.
Bnaa Yes, I still what to know how come it was allowed when it was wartime? Chronicles said I believe that duels weren't allowed then.
Bnaa I can't believe the revised measure changed that
DracosHeron Shown him mercy?
Kranar_Drogin Measure change again Bnaa
Sephzero But it might or drop it out.
DracosHeron How do you figure that?
DracosHeron Jaymes did not murder him
DracosHeron He killed him
DracosHeron but it was not murder
Trampas What's the difference?
Bnaa The guy surrendered
Ravenmantle Huh? The man had surrendered. Of course it was murder. Cold-blooded murder.
Kranar_Drogin No he didn't
DracosHeron Well in the code of chilvary there is a difference
Kranar_Drogin He never finished the words
Sephzero By margin.
Markus_Essers well I think Jaymes will be some kind of Uther Pendragon...
Ravenmantle Hehe, come on. Jaymes heard the words, he'd seen the man drop his blade...he'd surrendered.
Bnaa Well Coryn is the Merlin here, she even did the thing to help him rape
Carteeg It wasn't murder. 2nd Degree Manslaughter, but not murder.
Ravenmantle Yet he still drove the rapier through the dude. That's murder.
DracosHeron Let me see if I understand this: A non knight enetered a duel with the Lord Marshal of SOlamnia, second he cheated and third he wanted jaymes dead
DracosHeron but yet he deserved mercy
Ravenmantle Alright, 2nd degree manslaughter then :)
Markus_Essers now i have learned a new word...manslaughter
Carteeg Ahhh... the beauty of compromise and plea-barginning.
Kranar_Drogin Which is punishable to what, community service I think?
Kranar_Drogin So freeing Solamnia counts
Ravenmantle So, on the battlefield, if the enemy surrenders, they should be killed (mind you, the battlefield is all about dirty tricks)?
DracosHeron On the field of battle if you surrender
DracosHeron after an honorable battle
DracosHeron then sure
DracosHeron if the enemy is a corrupt, baseless, coward who is out to kill you in any way possible
DracosHeron and surrender is merely anaattempt to kill you later
DracosHeron then no
DracosHeron especially if you know without a doubt
Kranar_Drogin I think it was a dual to the death, right?
Weldon_ heheh. but that's the thing. Would you kill such a person? or would you chop the guys' hands off?
Ravenmantle No, the rules were that, should one duelist surrender, the duel was over.
DracosHeron Id kill the bastrd
DracosHeron but thats me
Weldon_ Jaymes could have shown mercy by chopping off the hands.
DracosHeron aye that would have been fine too
Kranar_Drogin well, since he never surrendered technically, Jaymes could kill him
Weldon_ Me, I'd chop hand and rip out the tongue., but that's me.
DracosHeron then Raven would have no ammo ;)
Ravenmantle By the way, if I remember correctly, Lord Frankish wasn't a non-knight.
Sephzero Possibly pay off a healer to patch oneself back together.
Bnaa Then doesn't that make you a coward? If you refuse the surrender?
DracosHeron He was anon-kinght
DracosHeron in spirit
DracosHeron He had no nonor
Weldon_ I prefer painful existence as proper punishment than torture.
DracosHeron and was corrupt
Kranar_Drogin So he was a non-knight leading knights?
Bnaa Jaymes isn't?
Ravenmantle Aye, but he was still formally a knight.
DracosHeron So was Derek
Archangel21 I have a question. Can a cleric restore a person's virginity?
DracosHeron Derek is a Knight who is not a Knight
Markus_Essers by the way: what about the hiddukul cult?
Bnaa AA21, doubtful
Ravenmantle AA21, I doubt it.
Markus_Essers i would say yes
Archangel21 In Messenger the daughter's dad said he paid a cleric to do it
Bnaa A wizard could with Time Heal :)
Sephzero Too odd-ball of a concept anyhow.
Kranar_Drogin I would also say yes
Kranar_Drogin Does anyone remember the Icewall Trilogy?
Sephzero Not enough of it.
DracosHeron I do but never read it
Ravenmantle I read the first book
Kranar_Drogin Remember Kerrick's lover?
Archangel21 yeah that's what I'm thinking of
Kranar_Drogin Her virginity was restored
Carteeg On the female physical sense... yes. In all other ways, no.
Bnaa Derek was corrupt, and that's what the revised measure was supposed to prevent, or part of it.
Kranar_Drogin and her mind was erased of Kerrick
Kranar_Drogin and their trists
Markus_Essers time heal can do it in all ways...
DracosHeron well the war of souls changed life
DracosHeron if I interpet it right the early 5th age was like leiven in post-armistice germany
Archangel21 Her mind was also changed to be repulsed by Kerrick
Ravenmantle Hola Sarin!
Sephzero Greetings Sarin.
Kranar_Drogin So, AA21, I would say yes it can happen
SarinLorebow sorry i'm so late, computers don't cooperate
Archangel21 So isn't that the same thing as making a love potion in a sense?
Sephzero Not an easy thing though.
Bnaa The Knights go through this cycle of being corrupt and then they're champions again, then they're complacent.
DracosHeron well thats the way of life though
Sephzero Not sure if they ever really become truly champion again.
Markus_Essers what about the hiddukel cult?
Sephzero More like they aren't as much in the gutter anymore.
DracosHeron well Hiddukel is really Ankhars thing
Markus_Essers i remember that du change was a member of it, wasn't he?
Sephzero I'd say what is it that Hiddukel wants out of this?
DracosHeron Yes but did Jaymes ever find out that Du CHagne was a hiddukel priest?
Bnaa Well to be honest probably just to go after Shinare
Markus_Essers but lord crawford has worshipped hiddukel
Sephzero Does he really care for the ambitions of his pawns? Or are they simply string to a bigger picture only the deity can perceive.
Markus_Essers and he had more then good contact to bekkard
Ravenmantle I guess he put two and two together. The dukes (or at least one of them) was a Hiddukelite...and they all answered to du Chagne.
Kranar_Drogin I don't have anything about Du Chagne being part of Hiddukel's Cult, did I miss something?
Markus_Essers so du chagne is also a hiddikulite?
Ravenmantle Nah, I don't think it's been mentioned. But I think he is :D
Kranar_Drogin Not that I know of
DracosHeron Funny I never thought Id want to read the third book
Kranar_Drogin ah, I guess we will find out in book 3
DracosHeron of this trilogy
Trampas It's assumed with his relationship with Crawford.
Markus_Essers the priests around him...for me they are clerists of hiddukel
DracosHeron but now I have a need to know
Sephzero Won't be that much longer.
Ravenmantle Oh the wonders of assumptions.
Kranar_Drogin I am counting down the days, a lot of questions should be answered
Markus_Essers so we have hiddukel on both sides?
Sephzero Or made a bit more perplexing before the conclusion of it all.
Trampas Hiddukel is just like that.
Sephzero On his own side.
Sephzero Which is why, what is his eventual goal is highly curious.
Trampas He's the guy who plots and schemes, using lies, half-truths, and sometimes truths to further his own ends.
Ravenmantle So very intriguing.
Sephzero Does he think an Solamnic Empire be good for Hiddukel in the end?
Trampas Imagine his glee if someone not just controlled Solamnia.
Markus_Essers so hiddukel sets forces on both sides to be sure he wins?
Ravenmantle Well, if Solamnia is changing like many of us say it is, this might what Hiddukel is cxounting on.
Markus_Essers with jaymes and coryn as his pawns :)
Bnaa Well Hiddukel controlling the Knights of Solamnia? I'm not sure I want to see that.
Sephzero Hiddukel is simply controling or manipulating the ambitions and dreams of the people.
Markus_Essers we won't...
Archangel21 Wow the gods of evil are really moving up in the world
Markus_Essers but i wonder about duchange
Ravenmantle B'naa, that he's plotting it doesn't necessarily mean his plans will succeed.
Markus_Essers he is most definately an evil cultist
Markus_Essers may i ask who would introduce the bombards in their game?
Sephzero All depends what happens in the end and what it was that Hiddukel was driving forward on how much he gets out of this.
DracosHeron I duse Bombards
DracosHeron Putt he fear in the dragons
DracosHeron causes some dragons to try to stop the humans
DracosHeron cause a civil war with the dragons
Trampas Dragons are power incarnate, and they know it.
DracosHeron and so on. .
DracosHeron oh wait wrong setting
Sephzero Just need to breed a bit more.
DracosHeron In Dragonvarld
Carteeg Time to get some sleep guys. G'night. :)
DracosHeron the Dragons went nuts over the invention of blackpowder
Ravenmantle Sleep well!
DracosHeron Night Carteeg
Sephzero Later then Carteeg.
Markus_Essers gute nacht
Weldon_ yeah, but in DragonVarld they dealt with it.
Bnaa Welcome HD
Sephzero Not sure if you could ever get the Dragons on that sorta level.
DracosHeron yes they did deal with it :)
Sephzero Hello HD.
Archangel21 hi HD
Sephzero We still aren't too sure how much the aftermath of the WoS will be effecting them.
Weldon_ Hey Hawaiiandragon
DracosHeron which brings this up
DracosHeron Will wee see dragons in Rise of SOlamnia?
Markus_Essers not a single one
Markus_Essers wait... we saw one
Sephzero Hopefully not in some cameo shot to die.
Markus_Essers a black dragon in the first novel
DracosHeron oh thats right
Trampas Which doesn't seem right somehow. We should see some metallics.
Markus_Essers i agree
Sephzero Like a Brass.
Sephzero Hello KC.
Bnaa Welcome Kendercommander
kendercommander Hello ^_^
Midnightstrider hello! :)
DracosHeron hello KC
Archangel21 Hi KC
kendercommander how'd I get here...?
Weldon_ so like, why is everyone joining up at the hour? is this a new NExuscon event?
Sephzero Digital transmission.
hawaiiandragon hey KC
Markus_Essers i had high expectations in the RoS trilogy...but without dragons, i don't know.
Markus_Essers somethings is missing
Trampas I had high expectations, but this series has gone in a very different manner than I thought.
Trampas A hero.
Ravenmantle Hmm, Markus, that might be what's missing for me...my beloved dragons.
Sephzero I wonder if expectations for it would be different if it kept the old name as the Empire trilogy?
Markus_Essers well they belong to dragonlance and therefore i likes mary's novels...:)
hawaiiandragon i doubt Jaymes would have a level of respect by dragons and since so far the novels are about him
Markus_Essers but the KoS had alway dragonriders...
Ravenmantle True enough but that doesn't mean Ankhar couldn't utlize dragons ;)
Sephzero Or some agents he gets have them.
Trampas When I first heard about this series, I had expectations of a Knight of the Rose rising from the ranks to unite Solamnia and drive out the Nerakan occupation. That was all done in a chapter.
Trampas So that took me aback a bit.
Markus_Essers same with me
Ravenmantle Yeah, that was some prologue...
DracosHeron I had no expecations beyond hoping for a good story
Sephzero As brief as it was.
Trampas Now, I'm cool with the series taking a different direction than expectations. A good author should do that.
Markus_Essers i would liked to read the prologue as a whole novel...
Ravenmantle The best criteria there is Heron :)
DracosHeron Now when Dragons of an Hourglass MAge comes out I will have expectations
SarinLorebow yeah, but that's two years away
Weldon Hmmmm. actually i'm worried about Dragons of an Hourglass mage.
DracosHeron a painful two years
Sephzero Well, you got other things to entertain you till then.
Weldon my expectations are what I've seen in a DL comic (which i thought was really good).
Trampas A topic for another debait.
Weldon but i doubt Hourglass will take that into account. :-)
Markus_Essers sorry guys, i had to sleep...it is 4.12 in the morning
Sephzero Later then Markus.
Trampas Debait deals with fishing.
Bnaa ok guys, I'm going to have to wrap it up fo